Hello, Hello. Welcome to Whole Body Upgrade.This week, I had the pleasure of having a conversation with Amy Hallberg over at the Courageous Wordsmith, and we were talking about rest and that we need to rest. And it was just a delightful conversation, so I wanted to share it with you all. Her podcast, again, it’s called Courageous Wordsmith. And so we’re sharing it on both of our profiles because we think that this conversation is so important. There are lots of people who are really trying to bring to light <laugh>. It’s the way that we are working in our society and really throughout the world is not sustainable. And it affects women, it affects minorities disproportionately. And, um, it’s really time that it changes and it takes a mindset shift for our society to start thinking of, Oh, we need rest, we need play. Those things are important to our health and wellbeing. So without further ado, I will introduce you to Amy and my discussion over on the Courageous Wordsmith.
Amy:
Hi, Rebecca.
Rebecca:
Hi!
Amy:
So you put a Facebook post up and I was just like, Oh yeah. And we’re not gonna quote the Facebook post because we were just talking about how, how we tend to privilege other people’s voices and how we don’t need to do that. But actually that speaks to the topic at hand, which is that the system is not set up for us to privilege our needs or our voices. So in particular, the topic was the 40 hour work week. Yeah. What’s wrong with the 40 hour work week, Rebecca ?
Rebecca:
Well, you know, there’s a lot wrong with a 40 hour work week. And I think one of the things that was being pointed out in that particular post was that, well, one, it’s outdated, right? That this is something from a long time ago when our society looked very different, our society was one person going to work. One person staying home, who was cooking and who was there taking care of the kids and doing the cleaning and doing any errands that needed to be done. And it wasn’t designed for two people doing those things who lived in the same home and taking care of a home. And so one of the points of that post was, you know, be gentle with yourself if you are struggling to keep up with all of this, because it’s an impossible task that is especially falls on women to deal with.
Amy:
Right. Well, because if in the old system, women were stuck at home and they wanted to do something other than stay home all the time and be isolated and do housework, and we, we chose to go into the system. It’s not like the system changed to accommodate us. It was like, well, if you wanna be part of the system, then you need to put up or shut up. Right. You need to play the game.
Rebecca:
Exactly. Yeah. We came in saying, Hey, we want something different. And it was, Well, good luck. You’re still in charge of the same things you’ve been in charge in, and you’re welcome to come work on top of that so you can have your two full-time jobs. Plus, you know, the full-time job of cleaning the full-time job of designating what happens with the children, the household manager is what we’ve been, you know, really been charged with in addition to trying to have a, you know, “balanced life” of reaching out for our own goals, our own desires. I really think this is why women are struggling so much since the pandemic started. What is surprising and shocking to me is how often women then think that’s something that’s wrong with them, instead of, Oh, there’s something wrong with the system in the way that it’s set up.
Amy:
You know? And I know, I know some men who are very, very involved in raising their children and are doing the 40 hour week week, I don’t know why I can’t say this <laugh>, my God, the 40 hour work week alongside their partners and the men are struggling along with the women. It’s a struggle for everybody. And I just wonder who benefits from this system being this way.
Rebecca:
Yeah. And I think that will depend on who is asking the question and who I think it, you can see a lot of different people benefiting from it. It does seem to benefit the business or the corporate bottom line of having people work a 40 hour week is beneficial for them to have them work 30 hours is, is, you know, a little more challenging to pay them a similar amount of money and have them work less, sort of have to hire more people. And I think it does benefit the more traditional, I’m gonna put that in quotes. White privileged male who still has that supported home. I live in a very white centric area, in the South. And there are still a lot of stay at home mothers who their husbands do very well. You know, they’re supported financially by their husbands and they stay at home with the children and, and they are really are working. I mean, that’s their, you know, “job”. I mean, it is a job, but they treat it very much like a job. Like, these are the things I have to get done today so that we can do these other things as a family. Right.
Rebecca:
And, you know, the rich get richer kind of a way of looking at it and or anyone else that has that privilege already, then it really does support them. But I think it really does seem to keep a lot of women struggling, exhausted and then thinking, you know, going back to that, as I mentioned earlier, that there’s something wrong.
Amy:
You know, and, and maybe it’s because I taught German for all those years, and so I have, you know, friends in Europe and et cetera, but Europeans take time off in the summer. Right. Like, it’s built into society. Like, not to say that Europeans do not work hard, but you need to go on your vacations, you need to take your rest. And they take that very seriously. So, and I don’t think anybody would argue that that German economy is failing at present moment. So, so, you know, apparently it is possible. This feels like a very uniquely American thing.
Rebecca:
Oh yeah. Completely. I think it is. You know, I think about the kind of the puritan ways of, you know, work really hard and it’s gotta be miserable and, you know, how can we kind of make ourselves as challenged as possible in life? It, it feels very much in that same vein of, uh, you know, you work hard and then you die. I mean, that’s what people say, Right?
Amy:
Yes
Rebecca:
And you’re right. It’s, it’s not like this is the only way. There are lots of other cultures and ways of looking at thing. It is a very American way of looking at, you have to work this much, it has to be this way. And I think you’re right. You mentioned earlier the men are exhausted too. It’s not just the women that are exhausted. I know my husband, you know, he does a lot at work, He does a lot at home and he’s like, I just can’t do all of the things that are kind of expected of us in this society. It’s just too much pressure.
Amy:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. And work hard and then die. Right? Say you got sick, you would still need to hang onto your job to hang onto your healthcare. So when you’re sick, Yeah. The very thing that you need to do is rest. And, you know, I quit my teaching job in the middle of the year. Yes. I thought I needed that job. It’s been hard. I have privilege that has supported me. But one of the things that I have not done since I quit my job and became a full time mom and slash entrepreneur is I sleep, I sleep a lot. If I don’t sleep enough, I get a headache and I go back to bed and I sleep. There is no margin for that in corporate America
Rebecca:
And in corporate America, just as you mentioned, there isn’t enough, even downtime built into the job with vacation. There’s, you know, this two weeks thinking, not even, not even everybody gets two weeks, and that’s not enough. Working at the number of hours that we work each week is not enough rest for our physical, mental, emotional, energetic, and spiritual bodies. Like, we need time to not only sleep, but to move, to be outside, to cook good food. Right. Like, all of those things take time to do. And it’s why so many people are challenged with, How am I supposed to do all of those things that really care for myself? It’s because again, the system isn’t set up for it.
Amy:
Yeah. You know, there are people who benefit from women in particular being exhausted. If we are exhausted, we are not in our power. And yes. So I think it is a subversive thing. I think it’s great to point out what’s wrong, but you and I are both about, okay, so we don’t like that. What are we gonna do? Right? There is power in our embodiment, in our self care. And so I think one of the things that really matters is the more that we become aware of it, the more we can be, I would say subversive in the sense that we can start to advocate for, Okay, what do I need? What do I need to put down? First of all, some of these things I don’t need on my list, they just don’t need to be there. But beyond that, what do I need and how can I make it happen even while I live in a system that isn’t designed to support people the way that you and I think it probably should,
Rebecca:
Right? Right. The system is as it is right now, and I love that word subversive, right? Because we can start saying, no. And I think that’s what’s happening right now. There was an article recently written about the great resignation in academia, which is, you know, I just left my position in academia this year. And it wasn’t just me, because everyone is like, this is crazy. You’re asking us to do more and more with less and less and saying, you know, hey, this, there’s this like subtle expectation that it’s not really a 40 hour work week in most of our positions. Right. Teaching is the same way
Amy:
And, and our children subsidize other people’s children’s education through the lack of our parenting. Right? Like Right. Every moment that I did not have to spend with my children outside of the work day, which was every single day and every single weekend, other people’s children are benefiting from my time that my children don’t get. That’s a detriment to everybody, right? Everybody, right? Yeah.
Rebecca:
It’s like that in so many areas. This, well, if we don’t have, as you mentioned, healthcare, right? You don’t wanna leave your job because of, well, you don’t wanna lose your healthcare or you don’t wanna lose the, you know, whatever benefit that you needed. Right? And then we see, well, how could we support those that are in need healthcare that would be more universally available. We could see that subversive piece that you were talking about is, how can I say no? Right? I always tell my students and clients that rest is actually a boundary. If you feel like you’re having a hard time resting, then that’s a boundary issue. So where can we say no to things that we think we have to or need to do that we can actually say, No, I’m not taking that committee on. No, I’m not gonna stay past five o’clock. No, I know you want me to have that done and I matter. Yeah.
Amy:
Right. One of the, one of my favorite things I’m very proud of actually, is I created the syllabus. If the kids are overwhelmed, the students, and I am overwhelmed with the thought of correcting it, then which of these things are actually required? And which things can I just say, you know what, we are actually not gonna do that thing. We’re gonna, we’re gonna drop it. Right. So that the things we do are more meaningful, because as it is, this is gonna stress us out too much and we’re not gonna do it. That’s right. And I still have a reputation from my time as a teacher of teaching my students a lot of of things even after I dropped stuff. So it’s probably okay. You know?
Rebecca:
Right. Yes. Yeah, it is. Okay. And in fact, you know, I don’t know how many times I did the same thing. I’m right there with you that my students, we would have a test, we would have something do, and the students would be looking like they were drowning. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I would say, You know what? Let’s just do it later. Or let’s cut this one out. Or why are we even focusing on this? Let’s pick the things that are important. And they would just look at me with shock because they would say, nobody does that, nobody just decides to do things differently in the middle of a semester or to take, take life, you know, a little bit easier, a little bit kinder, a little more gentle. And they were really in awe that that was even a possibility.
Amy:
Well, and there’s a lot of, you have to be willing to do that and people might not approve that, that might not look professional, but at the same time, Right. When it comes down to it, you need to survive and the students need to survive. And if you push them harder, it’s not gonna make them perform better.
Rebecca:
That’s right.
Amy:
It’s going to make them worse. Right. And it’s gonna create more issues and everybody will be less successful.
Rebecca:
Yes. And I love that “professional,” that’s part of this whole you know, that we were all given, there’s a 40 hour work week, what does professional mean? You have to do this. And all of it is made up. Every single part of it. And we believe it. And then we’re all just saying, Well, we have to look professional.
Amy:
Right.
Rebecca:
I have to be the expert. And really, what if professional was “Oh, my students are struggling.” Right. I’m a human. They’re human. How can we support the humanness of an education and academia or whatever field you’re in and really show up for a way that is kinder, gentler, and probably would actually be more supportive of our cognitive skills and abilities.
Amy:
Right. So I have two different directions I wanna take. This one is to just say, I think that right now we are in the churn of the pandemic revealed this. And there are people like, Okay, let’s get back to work now. And then the other people saying, No, I’ve seen this. And I think the millennials, you know, I’m definitely Gen X, you know, brought up by the boomers, you know, I see what must be done. Right. And the millennials had already started seeding that conversation. I think that we’ve all seen it now, right? So we are, I think, at a pivot point in our society in terms of, of the people who are trying to force us back into, and the other people going, No, I mean, there’s lots of churn happening in our society. I don’t even wanna get to it all, but
Rebecca:
Right.
Amy:
One of the things that you, you were hinting at and I want us to specifically talk about is if we know how we need to take care of ourselves makes it so much easier to advocate for ourselves. So would you please talk about the ways in which we need to take care of ourselves in ways that we might not even be cognizant of if we’re just going about day to day life in this society?
Rebecca:
Yeah. I mean, you know, this is one of my big things that I love talking about.
Amy:
This is your wheel house. I know.
Rebecca:
Yeah. And I think it’s, it’s just as you said, you know, I mean really it ultimately boils down to one thing, which is you learn to listen to what you need. And that deep listening, like you said, I need more sleep, and if I don’t get enough sleep, then I have a headache, then I go back to bed. You know, like those, that level of listening, if we really paused, slowed down enough and listened to our body saying, I need movement, I need sleep, I need, there’s something, you know, if we knew enough, like, oh gosh, I need more greens in my, you know, diet, more anti-inflammatory food. But we aren’t taught those subtle signals of Oh, that’s what that means in my body because we’re so often rushing through. Right. That’s the, I don’t have enough time piece. So, you know, so I always think of it as the five basics. We look at what does the physical body need? I think of the five wellness body, so the physical wellness body, the emotional wellness body, What is our, what do we need emotionally to take care of ourselves? Which usually means when an emotion arises, we notice it, we sit with it, we process it in some way.
Amy:
Right. Because if we don’t, it’s still, it’s still there. It’s just causing us issues instead of us working with it, it works against us.
Rebecca:
Exactly. Right. It can show up as then autoimmune disorders mm-hmm. <affirmative>, or it can show up as migraines, or it can show up as why is my neck always so tight? Right. All of those pieces that we think I need to go to a doctor for my back pain when it might be, well, actually what might be called for is processing through some of those emotions that you’ve been, you know, kind of pushing down and shoving down into your body for several years. So, so that’s the emotional body. And then the mental body is taking care of the mind and the thoughts and the beliefs that we have and being present. Right. That, you know, how can we be present with ourselves in this moment?
Amy:
Can you, can you talk a little more about that? Because I think I, I hear that a lot, but for somebody who maybe isn’t used to that, what does that actually mean to be present with your thoughts? What does that actually look like?
Rebecca:
Oh, yeah. Well, again, I could go on for a really long time.
Rebecca:
The snapshot is, you know, it begins with awareness and instead of being in the future or the past, really being present to, well, what’s here right now. So that could be a thought or a belief, it could be an emotion, it could be a pain in the body, but the, the presence part, you know, that’s mindfulness is my kind of choice way of, of being in the present moment of listening to what’s here right now. Is there a thought in my head that says, I’m so exhausted, I can’t believe this, this is never gonna work. Or is there a thought in my head that says, it’s okay to take a break. I I love you no matter what, I’m gonna support you and really right now we need to rest. Right? Those are two very different thought patterns that probably even as you listen to them, you can feel a reaction in your physical body as a result of that.
Amy:
It’s, it’s a, it’s a decompressed thought. Yeah. Right. Like, okay, right now I just need to rest and that’ll be okay.
Rebecca:
Yes. And, often we don’t have that because the model is, well, you gotta work hard, it’s not professional, why don’t you, you know, you can’t be lazy. Those are the things that we’ve heard from our parents who were instilled with that from their parents who were Right. The generational ancestral beliefs around work ethic.
Amy:
Right. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So we have three of ’em. What are the other two?
Rebecca:
The other two are energetic and spiritual. And you know, I firmly believe that energetic is one of the areas that most people miss when they think about exhaustion and rest. And this, you know this system the way it is is we aren’t taught about energy in America. That’s, we don’t discuss that. Um,
Amy:
No. I remember the first time somebody started talking to me about energy and I’m like, well, well what do you, what do you even mean? Like to me now, it’s so infused in, in the world that I live in, um, the life coaching and sort of energy working and whatever, Right. But like, people aren’t raised to even know what does that even mean energy? What does that even mean?
Rebecca:
Right? We don’t discuss this. I mean, it’s a very subtle body and they’ve been doing some research with it in the last, you know, 20 years or so, looking at what some people will call biofield or you may have heard it as called aura at some point, Right. It’s this subtle, in yoga, they talk about it as a subtle part of who we are. Or in Japanese tradition they’ll talk about chi or qui. Right. So those, the different Eastern traditions have always talked about this subtle form of, it’s not our physical body, it’s not our emotional body, but something that we can feel like when you walk in a room with someone who’s very upset, you can just tell that there’s a different feeling in that room than before you walked in. And that’s kind of the easiest way, you know, I can explain the energy. I think about this in an airport too, right? You can walk into an airport and feel the energy of an airport. Right?
Amy:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yes. You know, and, and I think, I mean like, as you’re talking about it, I’m thinking of like peanuts cartoons though. Like, like even though we don’t think we know about it, like there’s pigpen who just carries like his clouds of dust around him. Exactly. It’s kind of like that, isn’t it? Like energetically there are people that are just, you know, there are people that just light you up just by being around them. Or there are people who they just kind of, they kind of suck you down or like, you can be aware of that. And not to say that you would ignore all the people, but to say the more that you’re aware of your own energy, the more you contend to your own energy. So you are less susceptible to everybody else’s stuff.
Rebecca:
Yes. And I love that pigpen visual because that’s, it’s beautiful, right? It’s just, it is, it’s like this thing that he just walks around with. And when in the same way when we walk by someone who has that kind of lots of energy kicked up around them, you can accidentally pick it up. Right? It’s not good or bad, it’s just not your energy. And so, you know, some people are always like, Oh, I just need to keep my energy clear. And I’m like, No, you can clear it. It’s just like, you know, you want yours to be your energy and you want other people to have their energy. And it, it’s just like a hygiene kind of a situation is we just don’t wanna be picking up other people’s, you know, pigpen vibes, around them all the time.
Amy:
But, so if you know about that, then you don’t need to be pristine about other people that you just need to know maybe techniques or what are you thinking?
Rebecca:
Yeah, that’s my, the way that I view it, because I think a lot of people get really worried, like, Oh my gosh, I don’t wanna pick up somebody’s energy. And I think it’s like when you are walking across a hardwood floor with white socks on, you’re gonna have some dust and some dirt on your socks. It’s okay, you just wash the socks. Like, that’s the way that I think about it. So yeah, techniques to learn how to say, this is my energy, I’m not gonna take that energy or techniques to clear the energy. And these are relatively simple techniques that anyone can learn.
Amy:
Okay. So we’ve got four of them. And the last one you said was spiritual. What do you mean by that?
Rebecca:
Spiritual. Yeah. So I define this slightly differently than some people do. A lot of people think, you know, only in terms of their relationship with the higher power. I think of it as more of a global holistic way. I include not only in spiritual, I think of our own soul essences. So basically who, what makes us who we are, but also our relationship to guides. It can include higher power source energy. So looking at, you know, are we spending time in all the things that we are doing? Are we balanced in that way too? So when we want to be well balanced, we wanna take care of ourselves, that’s an important piece of it. Am I connecting with whatever feels right for me? If you don’t connect with guides and you’re like, Rebecca, that’s too out there for me. I only wanna speak to God beautiful.
Rebecca:
Right? If that’s your spiritual tradition, I say, then that’s your spiritual tradition and that’s fantastic. So I think, you know, my quote religion is actually is lots of different religions and several guides thrown in because that’s, you know, I love the multi-dimensional multi, you know, I’m multi passionate about things. I love yoga and Buddhist traditions, I, I like a traditional God or goddess, you know, all of them. And then I have my own guides that I work with spiritually. And the more that I am connected with all of that, that part of me then is healthy and well. And it that again, we go back to that subversive, then I’m not as willing to say, Oh, okay, I’m gonna beat myself into the ground because I know I’m part of all that is.
Amy:
Hmm. And I love this idea. So, you know, I was of course raised Christian, you, you that have no other God before me, right? Like, like there’s one God. And what I’m hearing you say is, Yeah, I’m gonna take this God and I’m gonna take that, I’m gonna take all of this. And those things are, are all complimentary. They’re amplifying their, their, their working in concert is what I hear you
Rebecca:
Saying. Yeah. Yeah. That’s my experience. Yeah. One of my teachers said, we’re all pointing at the same moon, just using different fingers. And that’s been my experience.
Amy:
And I think when people have permission to know that we’ll use whatever language you want. I don’t have to believe what you believe for you to connect in that way, if that’s how you connect to God, There you go.
Rebecca:
And in everyone, you know, I used to work with, uh, patients who had had stroke and I would teach them meditation and they would, during the meditation, talk about their experiences of meditation as being very much a connection with God. Their, you know, all of, almost all of them older individuals in the South are Christian, right? And, and it was beautiful. It was a beautiful connection with their source, their, you know, that higher power connection. And it just was, uh, amazing to witness. And it may not have been the way I would’ve described it, but it was very clearly had that same, you know, going back to energy, had the same energy, had the same resonance as exactly what I feel when I’m having conversations with my version of goddess or divine energy or whatever you wanna call it.
Amy:
You know, what I’m thinking about as you’re saying that is that I think sometimes what we hang onto, like we desperately hang onto things because we’re afraid that those things that were meaningful to us will have to give up. So you can’t possibly get rid of 40 hour work week because I don’t know, people will stop working altogether and just do nothing or whatever. Right. Can’t allow meditation because people might not be this, this religion or that religion or whatever. And what I hear you saying is that when we open up possibilities for people to explore things in different ways, it actually more likely makes it possible for those good parts or the parts that we see as beneficial to thrive and support us.
Rebecca:
Yes, exactly. Right. When we open up to what’s possible, just even say, I don’t know if I believe that, and it’s okay that someone else may have something different. It starts to, and I think this is what a lot of people can be scared of, is exactly as you’re saying. They can be scared that it means that they were wrong if they open up with that. And I don’t, that’s not the way that I see it, that’s not my experience of it. It’s just we’re all talking about the same thing in a very, not even very, I would say slightly different way. Like the fear that things will change is really just a fear that I’ve done something wrong or the thing that I believe in is somehow going to, you know, negate who I am or all that I’ve done all these years. Right. So it can be really challenging to say, Well, maybe I can still be me and let go of the old.
Amy:
Oh, that feels so good. It is always so good to talk with you, Rebecca. We always go somewhere where I’m like, How’d we get here? But I like it.
Rebecca:
It’s true. It’s so fun to talk to you too.
Amy:
Well, thank you so much.
Rebecca:
Yes, thank you. I appreciate it.
Ok my friends, I’d love to know how you are RESTING. If you are interested in deep healing rest, join A Place to Rest community. You’ll get 4 energetic, emotional rest sessions a month for $54 is an incredible deal and I don’t want you to miss it. Plus, you have access to purchase Seed Moment Healing sessions for only $108. I’ll post the links to both in the show notes. Ok dear ones, take good care of yourself.
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